Posted: 2017-10-13 05:11
On issue #6, I would say many relative to what? I know about the community you 8767 re from, and it 8767 s a great community, but you should know the community I grew up, the part that doesn 8767 t come to the mosque unless it 8767 s 8766 eid, and then deck themselves out, which will be mocked and looked down on in the religious community. The part of the community that sees no problems in mixed gatherings with alcohol, that has no problem dating, the part whose religious training doesn 8767 t go beyond memorizing a few ayaat of qur 8767 aan with tajweed that gives hafidh wisaam nightmares. The part that doesn 8767 t pray 5 times a day, not because they 8767 re lazy, or don 8767 t believe in having a connection with Allah, but because they dont see the connection between one and the other.
May I ask, what is the difference here? THat they 8766 technically 8767 owned the title to the house for five minutes before transferring the house to me? The whole reason the shariah rule that 8775 you cannot sell what you do not own 8776 was made was to *protect* the buyer. But in this day and age we have title companies that do this. SO why this fixation on imitating the mere fomalities of this rule? What additional protection does it give me as a buyer other than costing me more on the closing costs?
Having property that you can call your own, that you can give to your children, that you own the rights to it 8767 s appreciation, are almost fundamental to living in these societies. Only for a very small minority, and paradoxically enough the very rich and sophisticared minority, who feel they can use their equity to increase returns in alternative investments, does renting make sense. Which for most of this sophisticated minority is a ROE of above 75%. Besides, most Muslims WILL buy a house, so who are we kidding?
Also, the heart of the problem lies with not having an islamic central
bank, because the true islamic model is to give loans at 5% interest
with no conditions of ijara or otherwise. Money is not something that
should be done for a profit, but I guess that is the challenge of our
generation is to try to figure out how to make that happen without
having an islamic state funding it!
Bottom line = We are in need of some serious islamic finance knowledge. Unfortunately we have a lot of brothers and scholars (with good intentions) but with wrong information and knowledge on this issue. I know Al Maghrib has started a lecture (Pure Paisa) but its hard for most people to get access to that information. Shaykh Yasir does this sound like something you would be able to research?
I am not at all familiar with how Guidance financial works and I suspect that you are 655% justified in your objections. My point was that there is a fine line between pointing out issues with certain financial institutes and the larger need for non-interest based alternatives. From the perspective of a da 8767 ee, certain abuses of the deen is not reflective of the deen itself. The options are limited and definitely not ideal but I think the focus should be on the larger issue of refraining from Interest, rather than providing justification and indirect encouragement to go towards interest.
very important question which no one addressed is to think why do most of us need mortgage to buy a house. Why are the housing prices to high that all of us have to rely upon finance companies.
if you have not visited then please checkout http://
it explains that how the real estate prices were artificially inflated by floating money in the market. and the money was created out of thin air. it never existed and is digitally created. if we can stop the banks from printing money, trust me all of us will be able to buy a house within few years of savings. Riba / Interest/ profit is the not the real problem. the real evil is the creation of money which unfortunately no Mufti is recognizing or pointing.
For those who may not know, Ijara Loans had posted on their website a
fatwa from Justice Taqi Usmani endorsing an ijara product many years ago in a
different country. Justice Taqi Usmani then posted on his website stating
that he has never endorsed such a product in the United States.
Unfortunately, since most people don’t know Ijara Loans but they do know
Guidance. They have made the assumption that he revoked his fatwa with
Guidance. This is the source of the rumor that has been going on for
I am speaking of the co-operative model rather than the 8775 big bank 8776 Guidance model. In the co-operative world, money is raised from investors (Muslims), so it is like the community is pooling their resources to allow their fellow members to purchase houses for personal use. Now there are many drawbacks in this model as well, but at least it isnt crass 8775 islamic 8776 commercialism.
Your last point is important in illustrating the differing perspectives on the topic of Islamic finance. Continuing with the meat analogy, is Islamic finance:
a) A pig that 8767 s slaughtered under the basmalah
b) A halal meat factory that machine slaughters its meat with a 8766 bismillah 8767 sticker on the blade
If we are saying it is (a), then there 8767 s no difference between it and a conventional mortgage. If it is closer to (b), we are saying that it 8767 s not the ideal solution, but acceptable to certain scholars on the basis of necessity. Given the number of scholars who have certified certain banks and their contracts, I always assumed it to be closer to (b). Allahu A 8767 alem.
5) Wrt the morphing point- I think the extent to which we assume these scholars to be naïve and/or unaware of the problematic practices done by these banks is likely overstated. I’m certain many of these scholars feel a sense of responsibility in facilitating halal alternatives for the Muslim community. When they keep hearing about how difficult it is for Muslims to live without homes and the struggles of trying to buy a home in a halal fashion, it’s difficult not to think that pressure plays into their willingness to certify a model/contract that is far from ideal.
Al karadawi imam understand the Quran and Islamic fatwa better than other non Arab imams
Even if he is the only one who disagree with this fatwas his interest is trying to clarify what the Quran and Hadith said about this matter,we as Muslim especially (Arabs) the Quran verses are clear once we hear them only the message is clear to us it is our mother tongue language we can 8767 t take some of it and leave some of it because it doesn 8767 t suit us,if it is haram it is haram ,if it is halal it is halal,the RIBA is haram ,renting is halal
And we can afford it ,if we have the cash we can buy ,but if we don 8767 t , we cannot borrow money and try and paint the RIBA by saying that is halal ,Salam alaikoum
In response to investing in one 8767 s self, an assessment of financial priorities and current family priorities has to take place, and then a plan has to be made based on that. Depending on the situation, it may be better to further educate now, retool, and then enter the work force, and save. For others, they may decide to move to somewhere like Texas and become residents. For others, they may save for part of their kids education, encourage their kids to work and save in their teenage years (which I did as well), knock out the first two years of school in community college for drastically reduced prices, and then continue on with a combination of subsidized loans and pell grants (with the assumption no grants will be available). Each person needs to figure out where they are, where they want to go, and then work towards it.
There is mention of both Dr. Mahmoud el Gamal (Rice economist and egyptian Muslim but current Houstonite) and Dr. Main ul Qudah both of whom I have corresponded with and discussed Islamic finance with Dr. Mahmoud has some extensive work and papers published on Islamic finance and he has immersed himself in this subject. He is extremely intelligent but also cynical about the window dressing aspect of current Islamic finance. His thesis, from what I can gather, is that Islamic finance as it stands is highly inefficient and the mark up in fees reflected in Islamic financial instruments including home loans reflects this inefficiency. I 8767 ve corresponded with him about his attempt at emulating Dr. Younus 8767 micro-credit loan schemes in Egypt and there are major assumptions and clauses tied to those schemes including non-repayment penalties that are heavy.
So I am 655% against riba, don 8767 t get me wrong here. But let me say something which may sound controversial. If we look at objectives, then the objective of not indulging in riba is because it is exploitive, and is the opposite of giving charity. But are home owners who buy homes, whether on riba or on the halal alternatives, really being exploited? I 8767 m talking about someone who can afford payments, does not buy more than he can afford, etc. Is that person being exploited or he is benefiting? Again, I don 8767 t indulge in riba Alhamdolillah, but if we are talking about objectives, then shouldn 8767 t this be taken into account?
6) Rent vs. Buying- I think either you’re misunderstanding my point or maybe I’m misunderstanding yours. My objective was not and is not to advocate for home buying. It is providing an alternate perspective, one that is rarely considered by some practicing Muslims (please forgive the generalized appellations…it is something I find repulsive, but in the context of this discussion I pray you understand what I’m getting at) when denigrating the mere possibility of purchasing a home as opposed to renting.
About living without a credit card, I 8767 ve lived solely on a debit card for many years now, and have had no problems renting. I did have credit cards years ago when I didn 8767 t know about riba, and I was irresponsible with them and they hurt, not helped, my credit, but they 8767 ve been long since paid off, my credit rating remains relatively low compared to most, and getting nice apartments and so on has been pretty easy. I 8767 m not one of those, btw, who don 8767 t believe its disallowed to own a credit card, I just avoid it as a matter of practice. My wife happens to have gotten one last year because she wants to build her history, so she makes small purchases we could easily pay off immediately with cash, and that 8767 s it.
As i spoke to devon and few of my friends and as i understand that there is no issue is signing 7 contract and infact thats what made it islamic because you can sell a product that you don 8767 t own that is the case with other institutions. And the reason for Devon having charge for 7 closing cost is because its a sale agreement between seller and the bank and then to you. What i don 8767 t see a fair is charging customer twice for closing cost i think they can adjust that in the profit. As he explained to me that you can even see devon as the owner even of deed in city records though its only for a day.
I feel fairly confident that my mortgage with UIF is halal. Is it possible that UIF was merely defrauding me and the terms of the contract I have with them are more malleable than I perceive? yes it is possible. But than any two party transaction is subject to different views. Buying a 5% interest car might only be marginally better. My minivan 8767 s financing was given from Chrysler to TD Bank lat year. Is it haram? Not if they continue following the same terms.
Additionally, I started experiencing growth in my career. I started working (and remain working) in positions that required me to have a corporate credit card for work expenses. Since my corporate cards were always American Express, I was forced to get my own separate credit card because American Express was not accepted for many services I needed that required credit card transactions (and no, they didn’t accept a debit card). Over time the amount I use credit cards has gone up, and I now have to make credit card transactions on a fairly regular basis. I literally only use it when I absolutely have to for work, but even within that limited scope of usage I end up using it quite a bit.